Design

[翻譯] The Structure of Fun: Learning from Super Mario 3D Land’s Director


本文轉錄自gamasutra

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/168460/the_structure_of_fun_learning_.php

The Structure of Fun: Learning from Super Mario 3D Land’s Director

從Super Mario 3D Land的製作人學習樂趣的建構

by Christian Nutt [Design, Interview]

April 13, 2012     Article Start     Page 1 of 4     Next

It’s hard to pinpoint the most interesting thing about last year’s release of Super Mario 3D Land for the Nintendo 3DS. Was it its successful proof-of-concept for stereoscopic 3D gameplay? Was it the fact that the game was the first portable Mario developed by the main Mario team?
很難指出去年Nintendo 3DS平台上釋出遊戲Super Mario 3D Land的最有趣的地方在哪裡。
這個遊戲是否證明3D立體遊玩的體驗?是否這遊戲是第一個瑪莉歐團隊製作的行動版本?

These things are important. But it might well be that the most interesting thing about the game is that it started over from scratch on the concept of what a 3D Mario game is. Director Koichi Hayashida, who works at Nintendo EAD Tokyo, developed the game as though it were the first 3D Mario game ever made, jettisoning much of the legacy of the series post-1996.
更令人覺得有趣的是這款遊戲開始讓我們從頭開始思考3D瑪莉歐遊戲的概念是什麼。任職於Nintendo EAD Tokyo的製作人Koichi Hayashida開發這個遊戲就像第一個3D瑪莉歐一樣,並捨棄這個系列1996年之後的一些包袱。

At this year’s GDC, he spoke about that process, and how developing the game during the 9.0 magnitude earthquake that shook Japan in 2011 helped him find the fun in making Mario games. In this interview, he discusses that, and explains how Nintendo draws on Japanese narrative tradition to structure its levels, as well as what he focuses on during play tests.
今年的GDC,他談到在2011年搖晃日本9.0地震的影響幫助他開發這款遊戲並找到製作瑪莉歐遊戲樂趣的經驗。訪問中,他解釋任天堂如何從日本的傳統敘事方式來結構他的關卡,以及如何專注在試玩上。

You’ve worked at Nintendo since, I guess, the tail end of the NES days, but Super Mario Galaxy 2 was your debut as a director. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your path, and how you rose to become a director.
記者:你自從超任時代的尾端就進入任天堂,但到Super Mario Galaxy 2才是你擔任製作人初試啼聲的一款遊戲。是否能談談這經歷,如何躍升為一個製作人。

KH: So on Super Mario Sunshine, Mr. Koizumi was the director. But when I look at my early beginnings, it was actually when I was working on the early Gamecube dev boards. I was creating the 3D library with EAD, and working on that kind of very foundational development there.
該從Super Mario Sunshine說起,小泉先生正任製作人。但更早之前,我正在做Gamecube的開發版,建立3D函式庫,並做基礎研發的工作。

The main programmer of Super Mario 64 was a Mr. Nishida, someone who I really respected. You may also have seen his work in the Super NES Zelda game, where he did the polygon Triforce that appeared in the opening screen. That was something that he had made.
我尊敬的Nishida先生他那時擔任Super Mario 64的主程式,以及開發超任薩爾達遊戲。當時他在Triforce機版螢幕上顯示多邊形,那是他所完成的工作。

So he was studying the Nintendo 64 hardware, and became the main programmer on Super Mario 64, and I had been doing some work on that system at the time, and then became the programmer on Sunshine.
他正在研究Nintendo 64的硬體,然後成為Super Mario 64的主程式,我那時也持續在系統上開發,最後我成為Super Mario Sunshine的軟體。

I am a programmer at heart. I always have been interested in programming. Ever since I started making games on a Commodore VIC-20 when I was in fifth grade — I guess that would be the start of my interest, but my interest in programming was always to the end that I wanted to make games, not that I was interested in programming for its own sake necessarily, so I guess that was the beginning of my career. And that takes us up to my work as main programmer on Super Mario Sunshine.
身為軟體核心,我對程式設計很有興趣,曾經在五年級就用Commodore VIC-20這台機器作過遊戲,我在程式設計的興趣最終導致我進入遊戲界。最後我就當上Super Mario Sunshine的主程式。

And so after Super Mario Sunshine, I worked on Donkey Kong Jungle Beat as the assistant director, and I also did some level design on that game. After Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, I was the level design director on Super Mario Galaxy 1. On Super Mario Galaxy 2, Mr. Koizumi became the producer, and I took the lead, with another — Mr. Motokura, who was in charge of program design, while I was the director. And then on Super Mario 3D Land, I was the director.
在Super Mario Sunshine之後,我以副製作人的身分製作Donkey Kong Jungle Beat,同時在那款遊戲中做關卡設計。之後,在Super Mario Galaxy 1的時候我就擔任了關卡設計企劃的工作。Super Mario Galaxy 2的時候Koizumi是監製,Motokura負責程式設計,我就擔任製作人。Super Mario 3D Land也是。

I was interested to hear in your talk that you tried to imagine what 3D Mario would be like if you left behind the rules that had been established, because that’s exactly what I thought when I played Super Mario 3D Land. Why did you decide to do it that way?
記者:我對於你演講時提到想捨棄一些這個系列已經建立的規則並了解3D的瑪莉歐該是怎樣的想法很有興趣。那剛好跟我玩Super Mario 3D Land感覺到的一樣,你為什麼決定這樣做?

KH: Well, every Mario game is, of course, made with all of the learnings in mind from the Mario games that preceded it. So, for example, we made Mario 64, and then Super Mario Sunshine. We were thinking what we had learned in Super Mario 64.
每個瑪莉歐遊戲都繼承先前的系列的基礎。

And when we made Galaxy, we were thinking about what we had learned in Super Mario Sunshine. So, one example might have been taking some of the camera control out of the hands of players, so they wouldn’t have to worry about that quite so much, when they were playing the game in Galaxy.
從Super Mario Sunshine到Galaxy,關於攝影機控制跟玩家的連動,我們並不擔心沿用,因為玩家也很習慣。

But each time we see a little bit of innovation. And it’s wonderful to have all of those elements to draw from, and choose from, to make a new game. But over time, some of those elements can develop their own demerits, such that you can’t carry them forward consistently throughout, and just keep adding to a pot indefinitely.
但是每次我們都看到一些些改變,我們慢慢的抽取挑選那些元素來製作新遊戲。但是隨著時間經過,那些元素慢慢累積了一些自己的問題。不能再無限期繼續沿用下去了。

What you have to do is make an investigation at every new stage and say, “Okay, which of these elements is working well for us, and which of them do we need to think about minimizing, or removing entirely?
在系列中每一個階段做一個探討,到底哪個元素才是適合我們,哪些該減少,哪些該整個移除。

And, when you think about the fact that we’ve made five games, starting with Super Mario 64, in the 3D Mario game series, but this is the first that’s portable. Then that represents, at least to me, a really good opportunity to change things up a little bit.
我們體認到我們在這3D系列上已經製作了五個遊戲,但這是第一個行動版本。所以對我來說這是一個很好做一些改變的時機。

So, did you really start with a similar template to the Galaxy/64 lineage and then start removing elements, or did you actually start from scratch and add elements, and then see how they worked?
記者:所以你們把Galaxy/64當樣板開始移除元素,還是從頭開始增加,再看運作的如何。

KH: Well, we certainly tried a lot of things, and if you were at the presentation, then you must’ve seen that Mario 64 level that we tried to play through using a stereoscopic display to see if it would work or not.
確實作了有很多事情,比如說我們試著在立體螢幕上看Mario 64的關卡運作的情況。

We tried other things involving Galaxy as well. For example, we played Super Mario Galaxy 2 on a very small TV, and what we noticed, of course, was Mario was very, very tiny on the screen, so it was difficult to play the game when he’s that small. We realized we have to make Mario a little bit bigger. And that’s just more of the technical side of things, I guess, that we were investigating.
我們也把Super Mario Galaxy 2放在一個很小的螢幕上玩,結果瑪莉歐在畫面上小到不行,這樣根本玩不起來。所以才把它放大一些。

I noticed also in the presentation that you gave the game to your son and saw how he reacted. There have also been discussions of similar things. Mr. Iwata discussed how Mr. Miyamoto would kidnap employees and make them play the games. Do you do formal playtests with focus groups, or do you rely more on small tests with friends, family, and co-workers?
記者:我注意到你演講時曾說過你把遊戲給你小孩玩並且觀察他的反應,Iwata先生也談到這件事,就是Miyamoto先生會都強迫他的員工玩看看他們的遊戲。你曾經正式找人正式地作試玩嗎?還是比較依賴給朋友,家人,同僚做小型快速的測試?

KH: Very often we will do our playtesting with family members of our staff, but it really is a case-by-case basis. For example, in the building next to ours in Tokyo, there was an older woman who was an office worker, and we had her do some playtesting for us.
我們會請員工的家人來試玩,但是要視情況而定,舉例來說,邀請我們東京公司隔壁的工作婦女來做試玩。

But what we realized was that she had a lot of trouble jumping across even a small gap. We thought, “Maybe if we give her the Tanooki Mario suit, she’ll be able to do it if she’s just right at the very edge." But there was something she struggled with so much.
但是我們發現他甚至很難跳過某些小縫隙,我們就在想是否在每個這樣的縫隙放上狐狸裝。

When we eventually had her use the P-wing to get to the end of the level, we thought, “Well, okay, she got through to the end of the level, but what we really wanted to see was her being able to jump this gap." And so that’s the sort of thing that made us realize we need to put in some access to the Tanooki suit a little bit earlier, if people are having a particular amount of trouble with a certain stage.
最後我們給她翅膀,抵達終點。但是事實上我們其實希望他有辦法能跳過那些縫隙。所以我們了解到假如玩家技術上有這樣的困難,可能要把狐狸裝的位置再提早一些。

And that led us to the White Tanooki Mario suit, which gives players invincibility, as well as the ability to slow their fall after a jump, so they can make their landing easier.
這就讓我們想出了白色狐狸裝,無敵,同時又能夠在跳躍後滑行。

You talked about how Mr. Miyamoto put the P-wing in Super Mario Bros. 3, and so you did something similar. Obviously, hardcore gamers look down on this kind of thing.
記者:你們跟宮本先生在Super Mario Bros. 3時放上翅膀時做的事情類似。這樣玩家就簡單許多。但顯然高端玩家並不認為應當如此。

KH: I guess I would have to say, first, that in my experience I’ve seen hardcore gamers who try to play the game so that they never let the assist block appear at all, as if that was their goal. You may have noticed that you have those stars that appear next to your save file, you can get from one to five. If you play so that you never make an assist block appear, then you’ll have five stars that are sparkling. And I would like to engender this mentality that if you can’t do that, you can’t call yourself an advanced player.
我想首先我的經驗是高端玩家會希望在毫無支援的情形下玩遊戲。所以不會讓協助的寶箱出現,像他們期待的那樣。儲存點之後就會有星星出現,可以取得到五個,並且呈現閃亮狀態,假如這樣的話,協助寶箱就不會再出現了。假如可以不能保持下去,那麼就不是個高端玩家。

Do the less experienced players really enjoy this stuff, and have you found detailed feedback that these things really help them get into your games? And as Mr. Miyamoto said regarding Super Mario Bros. 3, maybe go back and challenge the levels once the stress of completing them is taken away?
記者:這樣的機制是否真正協助新手玩家享受過程?或是玩家應該先破關後再回去挑戰?

KH: Some people on our development staff felt like having to die on a stage five times was even too much before an assist block would appear. They wanted us to lower it to maybe just three misses. But when I look back at, say, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, I believe you have die eight times before you would be able to see the Super Guide.
有些我們團隊人員也許覺得死了五次才讓協助寶箱出現有點太超過了。建議降到三次失誤就好,但是當我回頭過來看New Super Mario Bros. Wii,他們的設定要死八次,才會出現過關指示。

But there are definitely those people on staff who suggested that we keep placing it earlier and earlier. But I’m a gamer, so it’s hard for me to imagine people wanting that.
把那些獎勵提前的建議一直有出現,但是作為一個玩家,實在很難想像玩家是要這樣玩。

But as it turns out, there are some people who might’ve been happy to play through a level for their very first time as White Tanooki Mario, just being invincible and focusing on the platform challenge. So, when I’m thinking about how we design games, I have to include those people in my thinking, too. I can’t just write them off completely.
結果證明,確實有些玩家第一次闖關時,就想要穿著白色狐狸裝一路不管小兵只想跳看台。所以設計關卡時我就把這些行為也一併考慮。

Talking about level design, obviously the level designs in Mario games are polished — very perfectly, so they perfectly fit together. If a design isn’t working, are you more likely to try to refine it, or do you actually discard things that aren’t working?
記者:談到關卡設計,顯然瑪莉歐遊戲的關卡設計是很精密設計的,你們只是調整那些不好的關卡,還是整個移除。

KH: Well, we mock up stages very early, and these are very rough versions that we’ll try and play through. And if something’s bad, certainly we’ll throw it out. But if something shows a bit of promise, we’ll hold onto it and keep polishing it.
我們很早期就開始實驗我們的關卡,在很粗糙的階段就開始玩,不好的設計就會被丟掉。相反的就會留下來持續改進。

Speaking of holding on to things, I noticed in Galaxy 2 you have the level from Mario 64, and that’s the same level you used to test in 3D Land. Is there something special about that level specifically?
記者:我注意到某些關卡你們在系列中延用,甚至到Land,那些關卡有什麼特別嗎?

KH: Yes, I guess we do keep using that as sort of our standard test for each new generation. I think one of the reasons for that is because it’s a floating island — the entire stage layout — so that makes it something of an easy test case in terms of processing. But, of course I can’t rule out the fact that I also just love it as a playable course.
我想我們用那些關卡來當做每代的基本測試。那些關卡是開發過程中很好的測試範例。當然我們確實有些偏好。

Something that I noticed also with this game is that the levels are pretty quick to get through, if you want to play them. In fact, you even brought back time limits, and the game tracks your quickest completion time. But is that specifically for pacing on a portable gaming? And also, how did you determine what the right length of a level is?
記者:我注意到某些關卡可以很快過關,而且你們甚至加上了時間限制,還有最快通關紀錄。這對於一個行動平台來說是一個好設計嗎?你們如何設計一個關卡的長度。

KH: Well, this might be a phenomenon that’s probably more prevalent in Japan, but of course you do see people playing games on trains as they commute to or from school or work with their portable gaming devices. When you think about the fact that it would take people 10, 20, or even 30 minutes to play one stage in Galaxy, we knew we had to limit the playtime per stage based on the fact that so many people might be playing on trains.
這可能是一個日本比較常見的情境,也就是說玩家常常是在通勤的過程中玩遊戲。當我們這樣思考,那麼我們就會把遊戲通關作成10,20,甚至30分鐘。就是考慮到很多人是在電車上玩。

And so we thought about someone getting on a train and going for a couple of stations and then getting off, and decided that should be the length of time it takes to play one stage. Whether they get all the way through to the end of the stage successfully, or whether they get a Game Over, we want the playtime to fit within that interval.
所以考慮到電車與一兩站就下車的情形,我們要把關卡結束或是遊戲結束的時間考慮進去。

And when I talk a little about the reason that we decided to go back to time limits on stages, I feel like this is something that is kind of important in an action game. You have to make these instantaneous judgments about what your next action is going to be.
至於時間限制,我們認為這對於一個動作遊戲來說是很重要的。動作遊戲就是反應要快。

It’s not the sort of game where you walk around slowly and explore everything. I certainly enjoy those kind of games, but I don’t feel like that’s what we’re going for with an action game of this type. It wasn’t really our focus. So, having that time element challenge is also fun.
這跟那些到處探索的遊戲不一樣。但是我們著墨方向不同,有時間限制也很有趣。

Could you talk about the polishing process? We talked a little bit earlier about how you will, if a level has promise, work on it. How many times might a level may go through iteration? Like, a level designer will work on it and then you test it and then give them feedback? Is that how it works? Or is there something different?
記者:能夠談一下,你們如何持續調整遊戲?怎樣的關卡才可以算完成?如何測試跟回應?

KH: Well, I think one thing that really helps a lot is playing through the level a lot. The more you do it, the better you get it, and your time starts to go down and down, and you start to realize what are the really important, fundamental things about that stage. When you’re testing the level more broadly, maybe one of the important things is to get lets of different kinds of people to get their eyes on the game, so you get all sorts of different feedback.
就是多玩幾次,上手之後,所花的時間會越來越少。可以體驗到關卡中真正重要與基礎的事情。多找幾個人來看你的遊戲就可以取得不同的回應。

And, again, do you source those people just from around you from your families and friends, or maybe the woman who works in the office next door, or do you do formal focus tests?
記者:測試人員如何募集?是從親朋好友還是正式招募?

KH: In my experience, one thing I found that is really helpful is we also get a little bit of feedback from consumers when they see early versions of games at shows. That’s something that I really enjoy spending a lot of time poring over the feedback from — although it’s not necessarily something that every developer does.
我會注意當消費者看到早期的版本時他們會給的一些意見。雖然這並非每個開發者必須做的事情。

Do you have them fill out questionnaires?
記者:有使用意見調查表嗎?

KH: No, we don’t use questionnaires. What we find is that they become too subjective. We rely more on the appearance of people actually playing the game. If, for example, you ask someone on-camera to taste something like a new food product, “Well, what do you think of it?" Chances are they’re going to say, “Oh, this is really good. This is delicious!"
我們沒有使用意見調查表,我們發覺那個太針對性了。我們直接觀察玩家遊玩遊戲的情形。比如說拿著攝影機問顧客好不好吃,那麼絕大多數都會回答正面的。

Just because they have that pressure of being on-camera, they give you an answer that’s not entirely honest, even though they don’t realize it themselves. So, what we try to rely on is more of that objective feedback that we can see in the expressions on people’s faces as they’re playing our games. And that’s the kind of thing we’ve learned about from Mr. Miyamoto, who is always really focused on seeing that face, and what’s the expression, and what’s their reaction.
因為他們受到了壓力,所以答案並不符合實際情形,甚至他們也不知道那不是他們心中的答案。所以我們直接看玩家的表情。這是從宮本先生那裡學來的,他總是專心觀察玩家的表情跟反應。

A lot of developers in the West go so far as to record the play sessions, match them with play data, and watch the eye-tracking, but it sounds like Nintendo goes a little bit more by feel, almost.
記者:西方的開發者把遊玩狀況錄下來,然後比對遊戲畫面,最後追蹤眼睛,看起來任天堂還多用一些感覺方面。

KH: Well, of course, I guess the methodology is fairly basic. You just look at someone and see what their experience is of playing the game. But you can get all sorts of information about people playing games, and you have to exercise a lot of individual judgment about what sorts of information are helpful to the development process.
方法是很基本的,就是看他們玩的過程。但這需要練習,因為要分辨哪些資訊是有助於開發的。

And it’s not the kind of thing that you can even design experiments for very well in some cases, because you might have this idea that you’re going to get lots of very specifically useful information from a certain kind of test in the beginning, but once you actually try it, that might not necessarily be the case. The importance, I think, is on using what information you do get that is helpful to make the game better. That’s a skill that all developers really should work hard to focus on.
這個方法也沒辦法設計一個固定的實驗,因為數據實在太多可能都是不必要的。該使用哪些取得的資訊來讓遊戲更好,這是開發者必須專注的工作。

I wanted to talk about the level design. In my impression, each level has a core gameplay concept that it’s about. And you do that, and you enjoy that, and then the level’s over. I was wondering if that’s really the mentality you had when creating the game, or if that’s just something I was thinking.
記者:我想談論一下關卡設計,在我的印象中,每一關都有一個遊玩的技巧概念,讓玩家能體驗。我想知道是否先有這樣的概念才去設計,還是邊做邊想。

KH: Yes, I do think it’s really important to decide on a core concept in level design. When I think back in my own career, as to when I might have realized that this was important, I have to look back maybe first at Super Mario Galaxy 1, when I wasn’t quite sure I had wrapped my head around that concept.
關卡設計中有核心概念是很重要的,回顧我的生涯,我可能已經意識到這個重要性,我們從Super Mario Galaxy 1開始看,當時我還不確定我是否已經有這個想法。

So you would be going through a galaxy, and every time you get to a new planet, there would be some new thing to play with there — some new concept. So you would end up with lots of different gameplay concepts in a single stage.
當時遊戲中每到一個新的星系,就會有新的星球,就會有新概念可以玩,所以結果就是一個關卡可能會有不同的遊戲概念。

Whereas, when I moved onto Super Mario Galaxy 2, I was starting to get a little clearer idea of how this level design philosophy should work: that is, we would start with a very clear concept on a stage and it would be maintained through, I think, the rest of the galaxy more consistently.
等到當我作Super Mario Galaxy 2時,我開始就有較清楚的關卡概念:開始於一個關卡概念,並一路維持下去,其他的部分就有一致性。

But it wasn’t really until Super Mario 3D Land that I think I really became a lot more rigorous about enforcing that in level design, where you have a clear concept in the beginning, and that’s carried through absolutely all the way.
直到Super Mario 3D Land我才真正嚴肅地強迫自己把這概念放到遊戲設計裡,自開始到結束都有一個清楚的想法。

Why do you think that that’s important?
記者:你為什麼認為這很重要

KH: Well, I think it has a lot to do with the acquisition of a skill, which is something that often appears very similar to the way that a narrative can develop. So, if you take a single gameplay element, let’s think about the steps that happen.
這跟學習技能與敘事手法很雷同。舉例來說,假如我們有一個遊戲的元素,讓我們來看該怎麼做。

First, you have to learn how to use that gameplay mechanic, and then the stage will offer you a slightly more complicated scenario in which you have to use it. And then the next step is something crazy happens that makes you think about it in a way you weren’t expecting. And then you get to demonstrate, finally, what sort of mastery you’ve gained over it.
首先玩家要先學習如何使用新的技巧,然後這關會增加一些些更複雜的情境,強迫玩家必須使用新的技巧。然後玩家經歷一些特別難以想像的內容,到最後玩家就能證明技巧已經夠很純熟。

It’s very similar to a narrative structure that you find in four-panel comics. Something that’s talked a lot about in Japanese manga, for example, is a phrase, kishoutenketsu, where you introduce a concept, and then in the next panel you develop the idea a little bit more; in the third panel there’s something of a change-up, and then in the fourth panel you have your conclusion.
這跟日本漫畫四格漫畫的敘事方式很類似,就是起承轉合,開啟想法,繼續擴展,加速,最後做總結。

So that’s sort of what we try to do with the way people relate to gameplay concepts in a single level. We provide that concept, let them develop their skills, and then the third step is something of a doozy that throws them for a loop, and makes them think of using it in a way they haven’t really before. And this is something that ends up giving the player a kind of narrative structure that they can relate to within a single level about how they’re using a game mechanic.
遊戲裡面我們運用這樣的方式在一個關卡上,給玩家這樣的概念,讓他們發展這個技能,第三步給他們一些精采的設計讓玩家能重複利用這個技能,讓玩家以沒想過的方式使用它。這就是我所說的敘事手法。在關卡裡面讓玩家使用這些遊玩機制。

Did you actually seek to take that concept from manga and apply it to games, or did you just coincidentally realized that it fit after you’d already developed the concept in parallel?
記者:這個概念是你從漫畫得來並套用到遊戲的嗎,還是從製作的過程中突然想到?

KH: Well, this is something that Mr. Miyamoto talks about. He drew comics as a kid, and so he would always talk about how you have to think about, what is that denouement going to be? What is that third step? That ten [twist] that really surprises people. That’s something that has always been very close to our philosophy of level design, is trying to think of that surprise. But this realization, I have to admit, was something that occurred very recently for me. As I was describing earlier, even during development of Super Mario Galaxy 1, I don’t think I had fully realized this concept yet.
這是宮本先生所說的,他畫漫畫時就像小孩一樣,總是想著讀者如何思考,如何結局?第三步是什麼?這樣的扭轉都會使讀者驚訝。跟遊戲的關卡設計哲學非常相同,作到出其不意。
但我真正實現這個東西,我必須承認是最近才突然發生。如同我先前提到的,即使是Super Mario Galaxy 1的製作過程中,我都沒辦法完全體認到這樣的概念。

During your talk, you talked a lot about the earthquake, and what meant to the development of the game, and I found that your talk was very moving to me personally. But what I found really interesting is you talked about at some point you lost track of what it meant to enjoy making something — and if you do, how it will become enjoyable.
記者:從你的演講中,你談到很多關於地震,以及與遊戲開發的相關意義。演講內容對我影響很大。但我發現更有趣的是你談論某些你忘記真正從做中得到樂趣,假如你有的話,它如何使你有趣。

Was it just the earthquake that made you lose track of that, or was it something that you’d felt that you had slowly lost track of and then that moment, that insight, allowed you to regain that?
記者:是否是地震使你忘記,或是你感覺慢慢的忘記,最後在那時刻才想起來。

KH: So, maybe I should offer a little of background about my thinking about this entire process, instead of feelings. Mr. Miyamoto sends out New Year’s cards which are always kind of interesting. One of the things that you can see in the cards that he sends out is that he’s rather severe with himself about his enforcement about the need to find fun in everything. And that’s something that’s expressed even in his year-end cards.
我想談一下我怎麼思考這件事的背景。
宮本先生的新年賀卡總是很有趣,他很嚴肅的強迫自己從任何事情找到樂趣,同時也表現在他的年終賀卡上。

And I don’t know that I fully understood this myself to the same depth, but as the team leader, I felt like it was important for me to make sure that everyone had good morale, and keep up our levels of fun and interest in making games. And, of course, I myself was interested in making games, and I’ve always thought it was fun, but I never really dwelled on the importance of why that fun made a difference to our work.
我並不知道我是否已經到這個程度,但作為一個領導者,我需要提振每個人的士氣與樂趣。我個人當然是很喜歡做遊戲,但是我當時從未真正了解為什麼這種樂趣會影響我的工作。

And so it was in that one moment, when my colleague gave me the answer that he got into this line of work simply because “making games is fun", that I was taken aback. I mean, his answer was so simple, and I thought to myself, “How can I convey this to the team? I really want to tell them all about this in a way that they understand." I think that’s the moment when I had that realization of its importance.
我的同事告訴我他是因為作遊戲很有趣才進來這份工作,就是在這個時刻我才回想起來,就因為答案這麼簡單,並問我自己我怎麼傳達給大家做遊戲很有趣這件事。我覺得就是那個時刻我覺得這件事很重要。

So, you can try and convey this to people in a number of ways: You can tell them a very detailed story about how turning swimming into a kind of game is a really good example of why enjoying everything is important, but it still might not sink in for some people. And I certainly know that, because that was the case for me.
大可透過各種方式傳達,比如可以用一個很細節的故事說明如何把游泳變成遊戲作為例子讓大家知道為什麼享受這一切很重要。但是這不能感動人心,因為對我來講我已經知道,這例子只適用於我。

I didn’t necessarily apply that same rigor to finding fun in the detail of every little moment of life until that moment, when my colleague gave me that answer. I think that was a much deeper realization for me.
我沒有必要套用同樣的苦行僧的尋找樂趣的過程給其他人,因為當我的同僚告訴我那件事的時候,我想他已經比我更了解這個道理了。

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